diff --git a/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-09-02).txt b/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-09-02).txt new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3804c8733 --- /dev/null +++ b/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-09-02).txt @@ -0,0 +1,1576 @@ +Transcript + + +10:04:38 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay, so let's start our first topic. Follow-up Excel. From our previous meeting, we have one action item. We go to schedule. A call for pain point collection and add it into the ETC effect. If I think you have done it, right, + + +10:05:01 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. So Yeah, we already adding that to the Pdgs append. Now, other didn't put much information. I guess it depends on how today's discussion will go. Then I can put on more details like what specific things we will have to discuss in the PDG. + + +10:05:21 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, so we have a separate topic on this. We'll go through the paint points and all the detail or even the next step. So, next topic is get health and check then. The floor, any news. + + +10:05:41 am - Dan Smith: + +I, I think that while Nova merged the Thing, that was immediately causing a bunch of failures due to the consumer type stuff. It sounds like there's still a residual thing related to that where they moved something else into this big giant. They, they created a big giant transaction to do, like four things that they were doing separately before and that was causing the timeouts. So now they've resolved the timeout issue by retrying, but The one of the things that was in the four that get done as a single transaction. Was is now causing some conflicts. So it sounds like Melanie is going to see about splitting that back out, but I think that's hitting far fewer people far, less often than the other thing, so not quite as big of a deal. And like yesterday I didn't see a huge crazy amount of load in the gate so which is a little bit surprising for this particular time. + + +10:06:50 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah, I think yesterday was good. My knob has got much when it took for three or four days to pass the recheck. And yesterday it was just awesome. + + +10:07:01 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. + + +10:07:02 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + It must + + +10:07:02 am - Dan Smith: + +Yeah. so, I'm glance was having some Kind of flaky functional tests yesterday, which is weird that we thought might be gate related gate load-related. But then I went and looked and so I don't really think so. so, but that's not affecting anybody but glance But yeah, otherwise it seems not terrible at the moment. + + +10:07:30 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, I think from curious I didn't have stack and all so it's going, okay? There's no issue has not. So let's see, it's release time so we'll be your this month. We may see lot of good thing that issues. So anything else from anyone from the gateway? + + +10:07:55 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Here. Okay, it's not really nothing critical. The last week has done said I think it was this week that there was some fixed merged to death stack, that was affecting Manila, but it was affecting them for some time that some of the jobs were permanently failing due to the switch to Ovn, but, I guess it wasn't critical that it only match recently, but + + +10:08:19 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:08:19 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + yeah. + + +10:08:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +I think we in devastack maybe we can talk in queue. Maybe in desktop we should have one just kind of sanities of to enable all these project and just install. Like we have in tempest for tempest plugin. To avoid these kind of failures for different configuration or different project. But anyway, let's we can discuss in QA channel about that. So, moving to next topic, our latest project. Average, the link of Peter Pad in on the IRC. So of six Project, Five project we have now the candidates to science they are good. Only one project is left at 10. And I don't think anyone has reached out to the previous video, please. raise your hand if you have reached out or if you know any news about anyone. would like to leave this project or Of we should start thinking about the option. Or even what you think about. We have like five option available for little less projects. So, What you think will you should go? + + +10:09:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I'm just, I think what I can suggest is if no one has reached out to the existing PTL, maybe we should do that and if we don't hear back from them, I guess we can contact anybody else at Catalyst. I know, say Long who works on Magnum is at Catalyst, and he might give us some sort of insight, and he's pretty active in the community. And if he says, Oh we're just not doing this thing at Catalyst because I think it was mainly driven by them, then maybe it's just worth moving to the X. Namespace and moving out of Openstack official. + + +10:10:20 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. So + + +10:10:21 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah, I can help to reach out to Federal. If you want. + + +10:10:26 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Do you want to reach out to them? Anyways, and then somebody else reaches out to To Adrian, Adrian. Just so that we're kind of moving things in parallel rather than + + +10:10:40 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:10:43 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Move if you can send the email to both of them because I know they're both in New Zealand. So I think Rico you might be the best one in terms of times loans. + + +10:10:50 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah, don't worry. Yeah, I think I would reach out to problem and see. Yeah, I'll manage her to do that tomorrow. + + +10:11:01 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +So, so I recorded it's an item for Rico. Thanks, Rico. So, let's wait for their response and then we can discuss about option in or Future meetings. And once and like, as you know, PTL induction are going on. We, I think it's closing on 7th September. I mean, Will + + +10:11:27 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Yeah, it's on the seven. + + +10:11:28 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, so after seventh, we can start assigning those. Other project leaders. So no, hurry in that. So, moving to next topic. + + +10:11:44 am - Amy Marrich: + +now, we don't have anybody who's so for the unnominated projects just to be clear, we don't have any Any projects that have more than one person volunteering. So we should be good with that once + + +10:11:56 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + so, + + +10:11:57 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:11:58 am - Amy Marrich: + + we go through. + + +10:12:02 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:12:02 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. + + +10:12:08 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +So next topic is New Project Application Venus. So there is a request from author, like how we should proceed on this? So, if you have any question, please add it on review, get it, or mailing list. but, I have not seen the question on credit since. Three days back. So maybe this is ready to what? Or what you you guys think how we should proceed? start more discussion, or Start voting. but you prefer, + + +10:13:00 am - Mohammed Naser: + +maybe this is a bit of a tangent, but I feel like I feel like this kind of weird thing where it would be nice to say like yes but not fully yes. Until we see how it like actually works. + + +10:13:13 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:13:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + +That openstack like I kind of get that feeling where it's like I don't want this to potentially be another like adjutant situation or something like that. So it's like like, you know, I think the cncf has this thing of like graduated projects and like something like that. And it's like I'm I'm on this feeling that, like Yes, but like pending another review down the line. I don't know how everybody else feels but that's kind of like the level that I'm at. I'm not like go for it but + + +10:13:44 am - Amy Marrich: + +And wait and we have the same thing but we have it at the board level versus within the project level. So there's nothing that says that we can't do something like that. + + +10:13:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + He? + + +10:13:56 am - Amy Marrich: + + In fact. + + +10:13:56 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Take not good framework. Like it's like directly approval thing because we have removed those incubated versus these things. So maybe I like the idea. I think we can introduce some of this. Level and something we can discuss in pretty easy. + + +10:14:14 am - Amy Marrich: + + If you think about it, it's kind of + + +10:14:15 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, + + +10:14:15 am - Amy Marrich: + + like when projects would come in and be on stackboard. And then they'd graduate. To the main repose. + + +10:14:23 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think one of the challenges here is + + +10:14:23 am - Amy Marrich: + + so, + + +10:14:26 am - Mohammed Naser: + + that people feel that if they're not on the openstack namespace. + + +10:14:30 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:14:30 am - Mohammed Naser: + +They're not like they're missing on something. I don't know what it is, but it's kind of like this this like validation that they get that, like, I'm on the right track. Whereas like, if we throw people, we're like, you can just remain X and let us know whenever you want to officially, like Come into openstack. It's gonna be like, Okay, but how do I know am I gonna get accepted? Like Maybe I should go and, you know, set this up somewhere else. So I feel like we need to kind of give the stamp of approval but not necessarily like, welcome to open start. + + +10:15:08 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +So with that approval, you mean, we still include that in Openstack and in our governance but we keep monitoring or How we do that with our current + + +10:15:18 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Well, I guess something similar to + + +10:15:18 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + structure? + + +10:15:19 am - Mohammed Naser: + + how the Cncf did their thing. I mean during that you have their like Full projects, and they have the projects that are like incubated I guess. + + +10:15:31 am - Amy Marrich: + + And they do what like a six-month check-in. So For like two, three releases. Maybe they check in and present their selves to us. And then, after we, See them a couple times and we just give them the thumbs up and they're on their own like everybody else. + + +10:15:47 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And what we actually would like to check here. The activist from the team or Thing moment, missing Wi-Fi is you. + + +10:15:55 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +It's not, yeah, I completely agree. I believe we need to see before being fully accepted. If we go into these two stages that actually the project gets some traction. And if there is people using it. And otherwise we'll get in the same situation of the projects that you just mentioned right. It's accepted. Then no one's used this project and we'll die. But having these two stages, at least, let us know that these feels real need that people are willing to use it. And there is a community behind that project. We do at same time with the validation with the openstack namespace, right? + + +10:16:43 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah. So, so that diversity kind of validation still having our current application requirement. And if I if I see I think a little slow you check, it's a single company. maintaining that till now, so It's good point. So, for that first, I mean I agree with that idea. And should we work on that framework side first. And then, Ask them to. Because with their current impression, it's like, it's the application and we will be approving it for the governance. So something we should propose in governance, documentation or the project application requirement. Like there will be two phases and like that will go. So first, I think we can work on that. If everyone agree. otherwise, if we delay that or we post from that to be discussed in Ptz, we have to check if they can wait until it is easy or we merge it and for the new one, we apply that correctly. + + +10:18:05 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Um, well, how far away are we now from Ptg? If anyone can over + + +10:18:10 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + it's one and it's almost two months, you + + +10:18:12 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Okay, so it's a little, it's a little bit of a weight. Well, I think we I mean, maybe we could do is just if we feel like it should be incubated. Like base your vote on, if you feel like it should be incubated and if it merges, it merges, let's not kind of take it and install it for much longer because, you know, we don't want them because They seem to be motivated. It's not like cut the motivation by saying Sit here and wait for two months. + + +10:18:47 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:18:47 am - Mohammed Naser: + +And it doesn't really hurt us to have them in. so I'd say in favor of that, but then adding a topic of ptg of either having different Like an incubated and like official project. or, and I and I i, There's probably better ways of doing this but maybe like, a class level system so that you could still be openstack, but if you don't have multiple contributors and a long history of + + +10:19:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay, it's facing like crazy again. + + +10:19:26 am - Amy Marrich: + + Or Mohammed. + + +10:19:28 am - Jay Bryant: + +Didn't it didn't we used to have a We used to have a process like this? Didn't didn't? We used to have a process like this? + + +10:19:33 am - Amy Marrich: + + Yeah, that's the one with that. + + +10:19:33 am - Jay Bryant: + + I feel. + + +10:19:34 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, that we used to have steadforce + + +10:19:36 am - Amy Marrich: + + Backboard. + + +10:19:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + incubated versus thing but + + +10:19:38 am - Jay Bryant: + + Oh yeah. + + +10:19:39 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:19:39 am - Jay Bryant: + + Okay, and it went from Stackboarding to the openstack repo and okay. + + +10:19:41 am - Amy Marrich: + + It was pretty good, and + + +10:19:46 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Sorry. I don't know where I was cut off that, that's all a mystery here. + + +10:19:52 am - Rico Lin: + + You, you are suggestion to have a classified? + + +10:19:54 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Well yeah, + + +10:19:55 am - Jay Bryant: + + Oh yeah. + + +10:19:58 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. Now, we have a retreat again. Oh my + + +10:20:05 am - Amy Marrich: + + You better get a refund on that Wi-Fi. + + +10:20:11 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Is his traveling? + + +10:20:13 am - Jay Bryant: + + we shouldn't laugh, but the timing was + + +10:20:17 am - Rico Lin: + + yeah. + + +10:20:17 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:20:17 am - Jay Bryant: + + Was good too funny. I can picture Muhammad now, like with a baseball bat, just going after the access point being like + + +10:20:30 am - Amy Marrich: + + and he's the one who won in the video meeting versus That in Channel IR, see me? + + +10:20:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, but we got the idea from him. + + +10:20:36 am - Jay Bryant: + + The irony. + + +10:20:38 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +So Let's do that. So let's do the voting on the current proposal. And if we have enough voting, then we can merge it otherwise in Ptz. Let's discuss about these two different level in our governance application. + + +10:20:57 am - Jay Bryant: + + Well. + + +10:20:58 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:20:59 am - Amy Marrich: + +And there's nothing saying that at the PTG, we can't like, put aside 15-20 minutes to meet with them anyways and work on things but I definitely agree with Muhammad that we can't let them sit there. We'll lose them. + + +10:21:11 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:21:11 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. + + +10:21:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Sorry, I just decided to LG, and want a life. Anyways, I got disconnected, but I was just trying to say that, like, we have the projects and for example, a + + +10:21:25 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + To. + + +10:21:26 am - Mohammed Naser: + +lot of people, I think one of the struggling with is Okay, Openstack people kind of see all the same and we all know. It's not all same, you know, like, Nova Neutron Is not the same as, you know. I don't want any other projects but like there's kind of like a stability difference and things like that and I hope we can find a very good way for projects to aim to reach that level of stability and maturity without making them feel like, you know, you're like a lower to your openstack project but still kind of giving them that official designation. So it's not a fully idea and I don't really think that played it fully the way it is but I think it's something. We should discuss in Btg. + + +10:22:16 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Yeah I agree. So basically after we discuss it on the PTG we can actually label any projects that we have under our poster umbrella with those. So if we decide on free levels we just apply those levels to those projects and then we have it all + + +10:22:31 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, that's + + +10:22:31 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + sorted out. + + +10:22:33 am - Mohammed Naser: + + as long as you don't know the tags. + + +10:22:34 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Following through. Yeah, this is the tax discussion so + + +10:22:38 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + All right. + + +10:22:40 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + perhaps it's a way to simplify things + + +10:22:41 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, + + +10:22:42 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + like It's understand that we have so + + +10:22:43 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +I think. + + +10:22:45 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +have many tags. So so this is something that we are going to work on with Jay still. But basically, if we could simplify how Cncf does it. Like, with those three levels, I think they have, like, the sandbox, the graduated, and the incubation. Probably. The incubation is the lowest one, or the sandbox is the lowest one? But yeah, if you Now, if we could adapt something similar perhaps with the same names, even to, to avoid the confusion, if someone understands already the terminology from CNCF, and then that would probably help and solve those issues. Like, Now, we are discussing whether to match Merge Venus proposal and we, we agree that it's only really one company. So we can really say it's at the level, like Mohan said, the level of Nova and friends. So, There should be some designation that it's it's kind of different maturity in there and not only measured in in terms of being in the first release but also in in those security metrics that we know, we understand. Yeah. + + +10:23:57 am - Amy Marrich: + + And hopefully by bringing it in under the main repose, they'll get more companies involved because it's got more recognition. + + +10:24:04 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. + + +10:24:06 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + That's true. + + +10:24:08 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I guess maybe we all agree on vote on it. Assuming that there is some incubator or whatever process even though and that's how we'll treat us now. + + +10:24:16 am - Amy Marrich: + + Yep. And being that we're talking about a new project coming in any updates on the Dashboard project. + + +10:24:29 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + We're missing candle. + + +10:24:29 am - Amy Marrich: + + I don't. + + +10:24:31 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Proposal still. So, yeah. + + +10:24:32 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Was. + + +10:24:33 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:24:33 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So + + +10:24:34 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + There was no proposal. Yeah and and Kendall is not with us today. So we can say really + + +10:24:39 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +yeah, puzzle was to collect what all things they need to do before. They actually propose it to mailing list or something. So we have told them that I've stack integration and all So, maybe once they're finished and they will never come up. So yeah, yeah. Please vote on the current patch and Nasir, I will add action item for you to add this in PTC tripad. Is it okay? + + +10:25:08 am - Amy Marrich: + + now, here's a Bad question. Probably, are we going to ask these new projects coming in to use launchpad or storyboard? + + +10:25:23 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think it can do whatever you want, + + +10:25:25 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. + + +10:25:25 am - Mohammed Naser: + + no. + + +10:25:26 am - Dan Smith: + + Are we is that like a TC thing? Like + + +10:25:28 am - Amy Marrich: + + Well, not really but we keep hearing storyboards going away. We keep hearing launch pads going away. So which one do we send them to? + + +10:25:35 am - Jay Bryant: + + oh, + + +10:25:36 am - Dan Smith: + + Well, Launchpad works. So I would think launchpad. + + +10:25:44 am - Jay Bryant: + + I, + + +10:25:44 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Okay, so moment I added the action item for you to edit it on the Internet. And then we can yeah, discuss some if it is, you So, next topic is the next step on pain points and project six. So, I'll add the interpret link in. + + +10:26:06 am - Amy Marrich: + + but, + + +10:26:07 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + IRC chat so rico. Go ahead. + + +10:26:12 am - Rico Lin: + +yeah, I think it's mostly like we already kind of like identified, the revenue is one of it. So I think that will be definitely worse developing. I mean, worse discussions in more details in the eastern part. so, for now is still Sorry Loading. I mean for for now it's I was trying to like figure out like what else Ping pong is that people can pick on. But I personally don't have any like, strong suggestions. + + +10:26:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Hmm. + + +10:26:55 am - Rico Lin: + + Other than Arabian Q to be honest. + + +10:26:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +So is So is there any like section in either pad, you made it for for the common? 10 points, we are going to filter out or Or we should comment in line. Every, every pinpoint. + + +10:27:11 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah, well I it's kind of like a very long list so we can we do can like spend a little time. Walk through a little bit if you guys + + +10:27:21 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, + + +10:27:23 am - Rico Lin: + + want. + + +10:27:24 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +yeah, I think that's good idea because we kept this meeting most of the time for this topic. So, let's go. Or one by one and then we can see how look. How much we cover it? + + +10:27:40 am - Rico Lin: + + Sure. You want to share a screen? Or I will share it. + + +10:27:44 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, that will be good. + + +10:27:46 am - Rico Lin: + + Okay. + + +10:28:08 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + So is the plan for us now to go through each topic and discuss it. I'm not understanding + + +10:28:17 am - Rico Lin: + +So I guess the plan now unless there's any like suggestions from from any of you like you suggest any of the topic inside and we can go through that one and give it deeply deep look. Or otherwise we we can like I mean we I can only just generally like go through the entire topic is otherwise. we didn't have like, to be honest, we don't have like a lot of like, like targeting feedbacks about too busy surpasses to say like Hey I feel like this is a very Like a point. so, Yeah. + + +10:29:00 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +Right. But when I look when I look into the weather path and I see all these feedback that in some projects is a lot of feedback. And I don't know about the value now + + +10:29:10 am - Rico Lin: + + Yes. + + +10:29:11 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +for us to go through each point because maybe we will not be able to discuss all of these points because actually don't know them. I think what will be important for us is to discuss the next steps? And if we go for these community goal, can we gonna follow these up? We did the with the project. Can we move these forwards for the projects, actually to look into these pinpoints and give their feedback? + + +10:29:40 am - Rico Lin: + + yeah, I think that I sense there's + + +10:29:42 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Because at least for me, it's very + + +10:29:43 am - Rico Lin: + + like two ways that we have to + + +10:29:44 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +difficult to say that Okay, let me finish. Because at least for me it's very difficult to say that, for example, in the ironic, the first point that is there is one the first one there that it's a valid pinpoint, or not, or should the ironic team look into it. I think that should be live to the + + +10:30:06 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:30:06 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + project but at least we should track all of that. + + +10:30:10 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So let's do one thing. + + +10:30:11 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:30:13 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Let's go one by one and see if these are the common pain points or applicable to more than two three projects, then we consider it. And if there is that's a very specific to that project then we can leave it. To have discussion with project or within project. + + +10:30:30 am - Rico Lin: + +Yeah. Since there's like two ways to driving the entire Easter path, forward is one way as suggests that we're trying to figure out like how to encourage each things actually pick up their own pain points and trying to help to encourage them to do the developer job in the following cycles. And hopefully, eventually they will resolve the pain point. If they sing, it's a pinpoint. The other ways that is we I currently driving now is to, it is trying to identify as the last time we have in the meeting. We're trying to identify some of the common pinpoints across projects that is not necessary to be a go, but we definitely need to target it. Maybe as a TC missions. + + +10:31:19 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah, on first one, I think these pain points are from project itself. So they understand their pain Yeah. On first one I think these pain points are from project itself so + + +10:31:26 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:31:27 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + they understand their pain point, right? So + + +10:31:28 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. The the performance of the database are very large ironic noses always been the pinpoints for ironic. I mean it's for very long time, they have been discussed that for very long time. Policing as well. Thundering hot. Yeah, that's pretty much as well. + + +10:31:54 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Yeah, Yes, as much as go through those, I have a hard time, finding common pattern, they all seem to be very project, specific pain points. From what I'm saying, honestly. + + +10:32:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + This is like rabbit mq thing. Anyone complained or they all are + + +10:32:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + + yeah, I mean, I think that it was + + +10:32:13 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + happy with that. + + +10:32:15 am - Mohammed Naser: + +brought in a couple different projects Uh, but that's a difficult one because like, I think that code won't understand no one's around that's still kind of fully comprehends. What all this RPC Muslim messaging stuff is doing. And it like involves a whole another. + + +10:32:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Used. + + +10:32:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Okay. + + +10:32:43 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + You 75 if you see here. + + +10:32:47 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I just don't know if there's + + +10:32:48 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:32:48 am - Mohammed Naser: + + something we can find common in our project. This close + + +10:32:54 am - Rico Lin: + +I I totally like onboarding to have no dubbing deep on the rap Yankee one. So I assumed I will be definitely one that was first easy to develop on as that's kind of like the entire community infrastructure sync that we can How maybe on the infrastructure level? Like I don't like set up with devastate job in different ways or have documents. + + +10:33:22 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:33:23 am - Rico Lin: + +But yeah, that's definitely something that we can traveling. And is, is like, as I'm sorry. Now, as I mentioned in in a lot of modules, So yeah, it's definitely something that we need to talk. I'm actually just trying to I mean, I guess today, we're just trying to like figure out if there's any more, if not that we can save our rest of the ties and + + +10:33:45 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yeah, the one + + +10:33:46 am - Rico Lin: + + Actually go discuss the other way, like how can we do the how can encourage things to to adopt their + + +10:33:53 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yeah. + + +10:33:53 am - Rico Lin: + + open points? + + +10:33:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, I think the one at 93 the OSC, + + +10:34:00 am - Rico Lin: + + Okay. + + +10:34:00 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Still, I think will need a lot of work to do that so that can be a good candidate along with Rabbit MQ. + + +10:34:09 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +So basically the shirt services. So with RABBITMQ, we revealed the problem that they also team is actually missing people knowledgeable about the messaging their PC system. That was delivered with the Rabbit MQ implementation and similarly the other services, obviously the Openstack clients. So basically the the two shared shared components in our cloud. So they also in the opens the client something that that is common and this is kind of expected. um, I guess from this discussion, I would I will come back to the words of Bermuda today that perhaps one point obviously is We can choose those common pain points because we understand them and to them to be quite obvious, which one those would be, but to actually give some guidance to the community, how to approach those pain points that were presented for, for each project, because the majority of the pain points which are actually pain points for the operators, are very project specific and And there's nothing coming between the projects for them. So we can just say that the TC only cares about the common ones and the rest are unimportant so that shouldn't be the message that we are sending. Basically I don't know the answer to what the next step should be, but I guess this is something that we should definitely discuss it up to date and on the PCG. + + +10:35:44 am - Mohammed Naser: + + so maybe this is + + +10:35:44 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. Decorate. + + +10:35:46 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Sorry, go ahead. + + +10:35:48 am - Rico Lin: + +So I don't think like we noticed to mention like It's not the old not important in the other way. We we actually sending a message about like we encourage projects to targeting those pain points. As we now collecting a lot, the other ways that TC can pick some of it and we can discuss. Like we can separate the topic and discuss those like say reppian Q. Like say open sdks, we can separate those, maybe not a go I don't think that is a go but it's kind of like definitely something that we can keep trucking on and to see how we can liberate it. + + +10:36:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, either go like Go Repop team. We can prepare forever time to do some of the brainstorming first for one or two cycle. OSC one anyway, I still feel we should solve that on priority. instead of + + +10:36:38 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I have I had like a very simple idea is that maybe if we could ask the teams to just make sure if there's actual like launchpad, bugs tracking all those things that were characters are very, very nice list of feedback, but at least having It put in somewhere and then the way the projects can end up, they decide on how they want to go about them. + + +10:37:07 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay, since you suggests the recommend the project structure is start tracking those in the preferred systems of tracking issues, right? + + +10:37:15 am - Mohammed Naser: + +yeah, because like, for example, Like I know it looks like Shawn, like, left a lot of comments on the Nova side which will like, Hey, this is how we do this. Say, this is actually not an issue because we do that instead of like this, so it's maybe like maybe it's just a documentation thing that needs to be updated. There's a lot of this stuff that needs to be filtered out. That it's not actually a problem. It's just, you're using this the wrong way, or This is how you need to go about it or This is the the thing that we're aiming to fix, like, I know there was some stuff really, you know, audit service and supposedly was like to resolve some of those shoes that they've seen. So it's like, maybe that'll help at least recognize very shoes and what are things that are employed and what are things that are just To be knowing. + + +10:38:09 am - Rico Lin: + +Yeah, I like the idea to to I, I actually like also like thinking about we have we should have planned to reach out to teams to not just the video but to to entertain, maybe join their meetings to ask like doing what the strong. The thing is doing Sean's doing to, to maybe like you made, like you suggest, we have the place to put it on the launchpad or so report. I don't know where but to have nothing to actually capable of feedback, then I guess that's actually like up to things. You decide how they want to reply. + + +10:38:47 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And looks true. Yeah, I think because the they have + + +10:38:50 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + so, + + +10:38:51 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + collected this so it's good for them to track it and solve it or document it. + + +10:38:57 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:38:57 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And if something they, they would like TC to like, work on or provide some direction, that specific thing we can continue discussing it. + + +10:39:05 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. So yeah, that's definitely one of those things that we should. We I think it's a good thing we can + + +10:39:11 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay. + + +10:39:12 am - Rico Lin: + + do that is as action items. To driving things to. + + +10:39:16 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Well. + + +10:39:20 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + when, you know, + + +10:39:20 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +I think that is important and we give all of these feedback from operators to the projects, but I also believe that TC has a role to track. All of this is not only giving this to the projects and now they decide. Because operators trust on the PC to give this feedback. This was asked by the TC. At least I think it will be fair for us to now track. Now, Every all of these pain points with the different projects, and at least get their feedback and in some kind of meeting video meeting. And give some feedback as well to the operators. I think we should not expect now that the operators will interact directly with the projects because they are that opportunity. And always right, but they choose to give these feedback to us. + + +10:40:17 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Yeah, I agree. I think my main ideas that just make sure that you know, we don't all understand all of these. So we've all follow deeply the rocks on those projects. But just to heads up of like, okay, like this is an actual problem. We agree or like actually, this is for example, openstack client. Those comments like Hey we've already made sure that feature parity is there. So it's the missing stuff that you know, is being brought up or then we can test. Those are clearly + + +10:40:55 am - Rico Lin: + + yeah, as I was like, + + +10:40:56 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Maybe. + + +10:40:58 am - Rico Lin: + + yeah, go ahead. + + +10:40:58 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Sorry. Just maybe we can tag all those issues once they're created somewhere and like much better whatever and we can kind of have those as a working list of things that we tripped down. So as a list of issues that we can walk through, + + +10:41:18 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, I think, let's go with that, + + +10:41:19 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah, I think. + + +10:41:19 am - Rico Lin: + + I mean, like, I mean like documents + + +10:41:20 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + help. + + +10:41:21 am - Rico Lin: + + somewhere from the TC side to for those pain points? That we can. Like after we have Project Feedback song, we can rework through the list of the maybe like a box to figure out how the process is being. + + +10:41:46 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:41:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, please make sure we asked + + +10:41:47 am - Rico Lin: + + Anyways, like + + +10:41:49 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + projects to tell us your pain points. And then we are saying Yes, you you fix it? right, so I'm not finding like how + + +10:42:00 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Well, the thing is that most of these + + +10:42:03 am - Rico Lin: + + We can try. + + +10:42:03 am - Mohammed Naser: + + comments are a lot. They seem to be coming from operators. + + +10:42:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:42:10 am - Mohammed Naser: + +it is, these don't seem like Projects that are saying these are our pain points ended up being operators and this is our pain points. What it feels like when a rating all of those, same ended up with this ended up being mostly operators. A lot of stuff for those big bigger + + +10:42:30 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Right. + + +10:42:33 am - Mohammed Naser: + + projects just end up being. Feels like operators saying, these are the things that were listening on. + + +10:42:45 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah, that's what my understanding also. Was having some feedback from operator and then we discuss it project team and all. But anyways, if it's coming from project so we can ask them to, we are track it in their launchpad or way and I think from this to two items, we can take it forward for it, easy discussion or next discussion, every thank you. And open stack client. Openstack client. I feel we should start doing it on priorities. We should get some resources there. Otherwise it's continuing continuing for many years. Right? We made the resolution but still I don't know how much progress we have after that. I feel these are. + + +10:43:29 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I think the biggest problem is you have a little, a small amount of people working at Openstack line trying to get The work of the entire community and I frankly just don't think that we'll be able to catch up and as long as projects continue to push things into their existing clients and not into openstack client. We're going to be stuck in the same. Thing and like sometimes maybe the only solution is a nuclear all Python dash. and clients and use those that client, and That's just kind of it. I don't know that to be the only way we actually start to put towards. Okay, like we're burning. You know, we're burning off the people that are trying to make openstack. CLI continue to be in single breast. + + +10:44:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:44:28 am - Rico Lin: + +So, I guess the most of the job that we I think that is in now took a section is more like a, not just real specific project but more like a infrastructure. Cross Projectly. Works that some of them being left of sound than ever happened. Working on like rampage. I guess there's also a certain items that Walmart mentioned like we have to take action to to invite projectings and with the new PDL to to give the to ask for their attention. Maybe hopefully they can have + + +10:45:07 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:08 am - Rico Lin: + + feedbacks. + + +10:45:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Maybe you can just convey like that. Yes, we understand that and this is project specific so you can track it in your loans, but or something. Instead of just saying, Yeah we know you mentioned the pinpoint and now you go and fix it. So we can ask them like if you feel + + +10:45:24 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:25 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +like this is common to multiple project and they have not written there feedback here so that we can obviously take it further. But other than that whatever existing things which are project specific you continue as per your project priority or nice for the bandwidth. Right. + + +10:45:44 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:45 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And these two things we can take it forward and see let's let's see how how it goes. If we get saved me more volunteer for OSE or Otherwise, we'll continue discussing in Ptz, also. + + +10:45:57 am - Rico Lin: + + Yep. And there's another, I mean it's a I I guess everybody knows there's another like the course project pain points to which is like low number of active, call member call reviewers, but we already have discussions on that. So, I guess that would be the action. + + +10:46:18 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Why I think more than project we need need, volunteer for our basic maintenance. So I feel that's project specific thing if none of the user of that need, volunteer for our basic maintenance. So I feel that's project specific + + +10:46:26 am - Rico Lin: + + Yep. + + +10:46:27 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + thing, if none of the user of that project coming forward so it's completely fine to retire. + + +10:46:34 am - Rico Lin: + + Yep. + + +10:46:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + I, I am not seeing like how we can help them. + + +10:46:41 am - Rico Lin: + + Well, I guess it's definitely up to the board members and the technical community members to to have further + + +10:46:45 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:46:48 am - Rico Lin: + + discussions. Brainstorming. + + +10:46:51 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah. And we as you know, like we continue doing with the Board of director, the installing session also And there is no exact solution yet, but it's brainstorming session going on and let's see. How it goes. But I think other than any of project. Specific thing. I see these low, contributor things feedback from QA. And I think that's it. + + +10:47:23 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:47:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + In front we already know. But yeah, in Korea also Currently, we still have people to manage the things. But qa is more. Distributed with the project. Project site testing right either it's a tempest plugin or people from different project coming and helping in their stack or campus. So It's not inverse situation as of now. + + +10:47:52 am - Rico Lin: + + So I guess right now that we have picked up two actions to to in the + + +10:48:00 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:48:00 am - Rico Lin: + +PTG, maybe we can discuss. And before PDG maybe we can try to discuss more about Arabian cues and And the Openstack client. And maybe like in PDG or after that we can discuss how how we can reach out to things to ask, then to encourage them to interact on the Easter path or on the questions. That is about being mentioned. Is there anything else that I am missing? + + +10:48:31 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +I think that's a good step. And how we'd like to go with the Bug on mailing list, you just apply them. project to track it, or You wanted to wait in Ptc. + + +10:48:47 am - Rico Lin: + + You mean how to attract all of this pain points? + + +10:48:52 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +I, Yeah, I'll just say leave it to project side. We'll just tell them. Yes, you can track it. It's not common but if it is common let us know. Otherwise you can track it. So it's up to them. + + +10:49:04 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah. + + +10:49:05 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Talk. They would like to do it. + + +10:49:06 am - Rico Lin: + +Yeah, but I think that as a as one of the action item, we probably need to do is to reach out to things, not just the PTO but to to the things maybe join the meeting soon to mention that there's some of the things they operated in feedbacks and we need their kindly feedback, reply as well. + + +10:49:30 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, Yeah, that we can go in pretty easy. + + +10:49:34 am - Rico Lin: + + Yep. + + +10:49:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Thanks Rico for working on this, and is not easy things to collect these kind of feedbacks and all. But anyway, let's continue it on PTC. We have now 10 minute left. So anything else on this topic from anyone? Okay, so we are moving now forward to next topic. Which is newsletter. It's just We are going to have a newsletter next week. I have added the two items which is from the previous month or something. And the election thing we can add once we finish the retail election. So if you guys have anything, any news to be added, feel free to add any third pad by maybe today or tomorrow. Because next week, it's going to be published and to Be at the link. The link to that is there on IRC check. And now moving to open review. So one HTC elections are closed. I almost that X and I have added my nomination for PCs here to continue. And if anyone else would like to service this year, please add your nomination. Other than that the open review is all good, puppet, minus I think. Yeah, we got the ppl, plus one soil. Merge that next is, Ptz Stream, TC Meeting. + + +10:51:44 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Yeah, so I have the topic. + + +10:51:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yeah, this Yeah, go ahead. + + +10:51:50 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +so if you remember like one month, or more ago, when we started, discussing the PTG with us, if we wanted to stream one of our meetings, like, with the last time, And so I had these action to talk with the Erin and to see if that was possible. So then I went on holiday and this delayed a lot. So she come back with a proposal. So apparently the, it will not be possible to offer these like in the last time in the open infra life. because now, the technology that they are using, I don't remember and we'll not allow to have so many people connecting, so many guests, connecting. But today are happy to host this like in a separate event in a date that we have the meeting. Doesn't need to be Thursday at that time. Via zoom, and they can actually also help to publicize this and to give the word to the community. So I think the it's on us to decide if we want to do this, the way we want to do it. If we want questions like Question answer style from the community to answer to ask questions or like just streaming a meeting. + + +10:53:20 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Hmm, I'm just checking the topics in either pad. + + +10:53:28 am - Amy Marrich: + + Right now, I think we're scheduled on Monday. + + +10:53:31 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So Mondays or PTL interaction session. + + +10:53:36 am - Amy Marrich: + + Yeah. + + +10:53:37 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Then we have Thursday and Friday for + + +10:53:40 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:53:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + 4 hours. + + +10:53:56 am - Rico Lin: + + So, what we decide to streaming about + + +10:53:57 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Should. + + +10:53:59 am - Rico Lin: + + is about to, to have a chance to interact with with the people who join the the YouTube, or we, we want to assure some of our meetings. I mean like as in the interact with PTO is definitely one of the things that can be streaming, right? + + +10:54:16 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah. we can I actually the idea of streaming Was something we wanted to convey to community tomorrow audience, right? Like, in last time, we had a discussion on release thing where there are a lot of members for interested at least to know the Know the discussion. instead of taking participate, So if we have such topic where we wanted to convey that discussion to larger audience, I feel that we can do it. If we don't have such topic, maybe we can just skip it. So it's it's depends on the topic, actually. + + +10:55:05 am - Belmiro Moreira: + +Well, maybe it will be if we don't have that big topic to be widely discussed we can have actually ask me anything session, ask the DC, anything and that could be quite interesting because then we can see how people think about DC, what kind of things they believe we can solve. What are actually the problems that they have in their minds about the community. that could be a very helpful and at least shows openness + + +10:55:37 am - Dan Smith: + + But they're not going to ask me + + +10:55:37 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And that's + + +10:55:38 am - Dan Smith: + + anything, right. + + +10:55:38 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + not. + + +10:55:39 am - Dan Smith: + +These will be all pre curated questions, vetted by the election team to make sure that they're not embarrassing for us, right? That was a joke. Sorry, bone marrow. + + +10:55:53 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + that they can ask you anything. So to answer, then is your choice, + + +10:55:56 am - Dan Smith: + + oh, + + +10:55:57 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + right? + + +10:55:59 am - Dan Smith: + + Oh, okay. Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. + + +10:56:05 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And that you mean not just community, even the people out of community right below. Even, they would like to know what? DC work. + + +10:56:14 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Well, I I was thinking about community, right? So if we do this, we're gonna and like, send an email to all the + + +10:56:22 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, + + +10:56:22 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + and that we're gonna have this session. + + +10:56:23 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yeah, the thing is + + +10:56:24 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Think about questions. + + +10:56:26 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah, the thing is or you can see the challenge in that is most of our session schedule on Thursday, Friday, most of community have their project sessions. So, I'm wearing like, how many of them are free or we should? At least get some schedule during Monday or Tuesday where where we have the people free from their project session and they can join + + +10:56:52 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Yeah, and I was also going to add like if it's not something related to a discussion that we're having, we don't have to tie it down to happening during the PTG. If it's just not gonna ask me anything, I'm pretty sure it could be organized as like an open and for life thing, because it happened anytime But if it's like we want to show + + +10:57:10 am - Jay Bryant: + + Right. + + +10:57:10 am - Mohammed Naser: + +external coverage of a discussion that we're talking then. Yeah. That makes sense for us to pick a topic that would be streamed but if it's purely just like We want to do an event thing then, I think we can totally incorporate that into something external. So I think if we can come up with the subject, that is stream, then it + + +10:57:29 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:57:30 am - Mohammed Naser: + + should be like a separate thing on a separate timeline. + + +10:57:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Look, the only one thing is cross community session with community steering committee. If community stating committee comes and join us, maybe that can be good to stream. + + +10:57:47 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, I like that. + + +10:57:50 am - Rico Lin: + + Yeah, I think that's a good idea. + + +10:57:50 am - Mohammed Naser: + + um, In a weird way. + + +10:57:54 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:57:55 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I'm trying to avoid anything that might like be very conflict-ish because people + + +10:58:03 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:58:03 am - Mohammed Naser: + +from an external point of view we're going to have this like weird opinion that like if we're like Oh we haven't contributors for agitant like response like Openstack is that. It's like Yeah. But this thing like came way after and like was only two people that are involved that so it's like we kind of just have to be mindful of what we like really named process. Change could be another interesting one where it's not very, you know, it's just like we're gonna go about doing this thing and it doesn't to come off with anything. So I think that's another interesting one as well. + + +10:58:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. So let's wait for a few more time where we'll have more topics in Luther Pad and then we can select some of the coping and then we can + + +10:58:49 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:58:50 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + go. + + +10:58:51 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I also think this OS 81 is also + + +10:58:52 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + What? + + +10:58:54 am - Mohammed Naser: + +interesting, especially it's just like something that's happened and we were just triggering what the best way to go about and I'm sure there's a lot of other projects that be dealing with something similar. Like I don't know, other infrastructure related projects or anything that support sentosa. Might be like, Well, let's openstack doing it because they're kind of in the same boat, maybe can get some of the rdl audience. It can actually go beyond Openstack only but like, how do you deal with Sentosa and of life in a big project like Openstack. Because that could affect other projects as well. So I think that could be interesting for people outside Openstack because, you know, I think it's important for us to find something, then outside Openstack, people will be interesting. + + +10:59:43 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah. so, Beyond time. So let's continue to Check on the topics where we can stream and then we'll we can we can see how we can stream it like on Thursday or different time. Depends on the live opening for live streaming things. Okay, so that's all for today. Meeting anything else. So we are on time So close it don't matter. She'll stop the recording and our next. Weak limiting will be on IRC. And I think we are going to meet on. Up first of every month on video call, we'll discuss in our next irony meeting. So thanks everyone for joining and have a good day ahead or night ahead. + + +11:00:42 am - Rico Lin: + + Thanks Russian. + + +11:00:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Take care. Cheers, everyone. + + +11:00:43 am - Jay Bryant: + + Something good. + + +11:00:43 am - Rico Lin: + + Thanks everyone. Bye. + + +11:00:45 am - Jay Bryant: + + Be everybody. + + +11:00:45 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Everybody. + + +11:00:48 am - Belmiro Moreira: + + Right. \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-10-07).txt b/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-10-07).txt new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f73aed408 --- /dev/null +++ b/reference/tc-meeting-transcripts/OpenStack Technical Committee Video meeting Transcript(2021-10-07).txt @@ -0,0 +1,2741 @@ +Transcript + + +10:05:54 am - Amy Marrich: + + We are ready? Capture on English. And I've got a transcript going. We are good to go. + + +10:06:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + To really slow, you will be taking care of putting things on IRC, right? + + +10:06:40 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + right, let's + + +10:06:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + The topic and okay. Thanks. + + +10:06:47 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay, so we are still in the roll, call to the recording hasn't started yet, right? Amy. + + +10:06:58 am - Amy Marrich: + + The recording started. Sorry, I was on you. + + +10:07:01 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay. + + +10:07:04 am - Amy Marrich: + + Are we doing an open search topic today? + + +10:07:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yes, the type put in last. + + +10:07:09 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:07:12 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So we finished the other things first and then we can discuss that elk thing and helping Clark from the when we start the topic, + + +10:07:22 am - Amy Marrich: + + okay, someone was asking about whether they should join, so let me go back to typing to them, in IRC + + +10:07:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + + now Hotel Wi-Fi for me today, I actually can be contributing with that disappearing every few seconds. + + +10:07:50 am - Jay Bryant: + + Who. + + +10:08:03 am - Mohammed Naser: + +So maybe it's a far-fetch question but I know we have some red hatters in here is redhead, I guess you guys cleared your whole travel no traveling thing. Since covid, or + + +10:08:15 am - Amy Marrich: + + Yeah, I was at open Source summit. Last week I'll be at Cooper coupon. Next week, you're gonna be there. + + +10:08:21 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Okay. That's good. No. I + + +10:08:25 am - Amy Marrich: + + So, you + + +10:08:25 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Traveled for two weeks and I was traveled. I was like, I'm not, I can't do this. it's like, So many tests going back and forth, and It's just like to come back to Canada. They only accept rapid PCR tests. So it was like, 300 bucks, just to get a test to come back and it's just like if you get a positive, you got to go and get it again and you're sitting there. and sitting in a plane with a mask for like, Six hours at the time, I was like, I don't know. People do this part our whole day. I rented a bathroom, just to take off my mask and free for a little bit. + + +10:09:11 am - Jay Bryant: + + Call me Crabby, but I'm okay with the not traveling part, right now. + + +10:09:16 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:09:17 am - Dan Smith: + + Um, yeah. + + +10:09:17 am - Jay Bryant: + + I mean I mean no hurry. + + +10:09:21 am - Dan Smith: + + Also, I know hurry to be near Muhammad. A guess, because boy, he must have everything. + + +10:09:29 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Because you know how much I travel around overtime. + + +10:09:33 am - Jay Bryant: + + Oh my my fiance got the third booster shot on Monday and she's had a fever of a hundred plus for two days now and Not feeling awesome. I think well, that's fun. + + +10:09:48 am - Dan Smith: + + A phizer, I guess. + + +10:09:49 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. So, I mean, that way more reaction than her first two. + + +10:09:56 am - Dan Smith: + + Hmm, that sucks cuz I had a pretty bad reaction to the second one. + + +10:10:03 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Now, just + + +10:10:03 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah, we might we both did in my house, so + + +10:10:05 am - Jay Bryant: + + Bummer. + + +10:10:06 am - Mohammed Naser: + + You know. + + +10:10:08 am - Dan Smith: + + I'll still do it though. + + +10:10:10 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I slept for like three days straight, + + +10:10:11 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. + + +10:10:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I just like completely out of it. + + +10:10:15 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. That, that was how it was when I actually had covid. Was I never had the fever, but I just slept for four days straight. + + +10:10:28 am - Mohammed Naser: + + We're waiting for Kendall to wrap up, I guess. + + +10:10:32 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay. Yeah, I think so. + + +10:10:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, or we can start a few of the things earlier like Gate status and on, until each one. + + +10:10:43 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +I guess you. okay, so so for those unaware, we are + + +10:10:43 am - Mohammed Naser: + + That's up to you. + + +10:10:44 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + that's, + + +10:10:46 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +still doing some real little notes on the IOC channel for this. So we had this roll call for now, and the next topic that we have is follow up on press action items. And there will know action items from the last meetings. So that was very quick. That's one. And the next one that we have from our regular agenda is the gay health check. Let me do a no actions from the last meeting. okay, and next one is Is this. So for my side I didn't really inspect the CI. So I'm not sure if there were any huge issues. I think not. Then do you know anything more? + + +10:11:37 am - Dan Smith: + + I don't have anything to report. I mean things have been kind of slow. + + +10:11:41 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Like that having to report, you know, + + +10:11:42 am - Dan Smith: + + You know, so + + +10:11:43 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + released no f******.[a] + + +10:11:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:11:48 am - Dan Smith: + + I think Nova had some of their own. self-inflicted and localized issues, but + + +10:11:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, we have one stable. + + +10:11:55 am - Dan Smith: + + I don't think that was an impact. + + +10:11:59 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Stein and train where we have the tempest old version with constraint not being properly. So That thing is also there but that's on the stable sign and train. So + + +10:12:09 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. + + +10:12:11 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + It's okay. + + +10:12:13 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay. So I guess we can move on to the next topic. Probably going to have more discussion. I hope this. This is the Project Health Checks framework and there are also two links for that one to the Internet. Please feel welcome to join me that and The review. Oh, + + +10:12:42 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Here we have pets from Ricoh. There and I check with ricola last time. So we were talking about to have the documentation about using usage of these diet and what action item will do there is nothing up. Yet something else RICO to have A before PTC and in PTC we can discuss what to do and on But yeah, if anything anyone have any anything else to discuss? We can discuss otherwise. + + +10:13:14 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think something that I would want. + + +10:13:14 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah yeah. + + +10:13:18 am - Mohammed Naser: + +To bring up that. I saw like a bit of initial while back is when we had the project Health Tracker Wiki page or whatever people started using that as like an actual like official thing to say if a project is healthier or not and I'm just wondering, like, do we Do we want to be careful about publishing data that stuff? Like this people are gonna be like, this is what the TC things and the TC things that This project is dead because it has no activity or something like that. + + +10:13:49 am - Dan Smith: + +this is kind of my my point about Putting context around the numbers both for what we plan to do with a particular number or or declaring the reality of like actually. None of this really matters. We're just collecting numbers because numbers look good. You know we can't we can't and or won't really be able to You know inject life into a project and that kind of thing and so yeah, I'm like waffling between like Yeah, whatever a collect number is like numbers are cool. I like numbers and like and then the other side of just like, you know, collecting and publishing numbers also means that, you know, people will assume intent or plans, or Whatever. I don't know. + + +10:14:42 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah, but my idea was like we don't publish those number. Like we used to do on we care somewhere but we discussed like a monthly basis. We check we run the script and check. Okay this project is having no patches most or Proposed. Then we check with the release team. or we check with our removal creditory if we can start retiring that project so that we can save the release steam time or or infring sources also But I agree like have the clear context and explainable item on that, but Not to like publish. Okay, these projects are having very less code or something. It was a libraries are the best example. Like Oslo will have very less commit there and very less review but it's maintained with enough people. + + +10:15:37 am - Kendall Nelson: + +Yeah, I think it's hard to set a specific threshold. If like X Project isn't meeting why threshold? Because every project is so different. We're going to need to like track, even if you track over time, that still isn't really. The most helpful because projects stabilize and then there's like less churn too. So numbers are helpful but require all kinds of context to actually be useful. + + +10:16:11 am - Dan Smith: + +yeah, and I guess I'm I'm having a hard time I mean, maybe maybe it does save the release team. A lot of time like approving patches to do releases it seems like relatively low. bandwidth to me, but like like, I just have a hard time imagining that. We're gonna like, Shoot a project in the head because the numbers go low. I mean, I, I don't know, I guess I'm just really having a hard time like + + +10:16:46 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think maybe the the way that I see + + +10:16:47 am - Dan Smith: + + Imagining. + + +10:16:48 am - Mohammed Naser: + +it is the best way to go about. This is this is more of a way to be able to proactively figure out that this project is going to disappear. Rather than wait until it's election time and nobody's putting it their name and they're like, Well, I guess we'll just retire right now because no one put their name in, I think. Because that's kind of been the thing. That's kind of been the pattern and the timeline when we actually decide to drop projects because nobody shows up when it's election time. I think, for most recent ones at least, they're coming to my mind. + + +10:17:19 am - Dan Smith: + + but, I mean at this point the the action item when that happens is do we shoot in the head or do we allow it to go? Leaderless distributed, right? + + +10:17:33 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, because that's been something we've done as well. + + +10:17:38 am - Kendall Nelson: + + So we're just shifting those conversations to a different part in the release cycle, I guess then. + + +10:17:43 am - Dan Smith: + + well, I don't know that we are, I mean what my point was like Retirement isn't the only outcome of nobody showing up to a. To an election, right? + + +10:17:55 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:17:56 am - Dan Smith: + + And and I guess, I guess maybe I was I was trying to say earlier like it seems like there + + +10:18:03 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:18:04 am - Dan Smith: + +really needs to be some external input other than like up script zero for this project, you know, like it needs to be like it's broken, it we can't release it, you know, the tests don't run anymore, people are asking to, you know, whatever. And so maybe the maybe the outcome is like or maybe the external input is Nobody showed up. We don't really know what to do with this project, so, leaderless. And now, we start running the script on it to see, like, Does anything happen over the next release or we start polling people to see, are you, Is this just working and you just using it, you know. + + +10:18:44 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:18:44 am - Dan Smith: + +whatever versus like, Measuring Nova's health constantly like, you know, anything. Like maybe we just measure the health of the projects that have like, gone over that threshold, that Muhammad mentioned, you know of + + +10:18:57 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:18:59 am - Jay Bryant: + +I thought the kind of point of this was to have a canary in the coal mine so that we could have an Yeah of you know okay well things are even more quiet here than normal reach out to the team. Find out what's going on sort of thing. Am I am I missing the point? + + +10:19:17 am - Kendall Nelson: + + No, I think it's like one of a list of criteria. + + +10:19:20 am - Jay Bryant: + + Okay. + + +10:19:21 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Before we shoot it ahead, apparently. + + +10:19:23 am - Jay Bryant: + + Right. + + +10:19:24 am - Dan Smith: + + You're welcome. + + +10:19:24 am - Jay Bryant: + + Well, and I + + +10:19:25 am - Dan Smith: + + I'm very violent. + + +10:19:28 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +and instead of like retiring or DPL model, if say things are for our project which we need as a mandatory like Keystone case, and if we see very less people there is no one now tumors the patch in Keystone to something we have to Think about adding the contributor or something. So, in that way, also it can help. + + +10:19:48 am - Amy Marrich: + +so, instead of doing the numbers based on how many patches or anything can we get numbers on how long Something's been proposed in our responded to with that, give us better numbers. + + +10:20:02 am - Dan Smith: + + If I think that's in there, + + +10:20:04 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, that's the review also code. Also must and how many countries or contributors? Like if it's a single contributor + + +10:20:12 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. + + +10:20:13 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Project or something. And I think it has the gate status also from soon. Catching some of the data weather gate is broken or something. One thing should be because currently released team does the release. If project is not proposing, the release, should we? If we stop that and we find out, okay? Anyone is not releasing. So this project is not active or something that help. + + +10:20:40 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I don't know if that's a great thing. + + +10:20:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So, + + +10:20:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I think a lot of people that might just be like deep in the weeds of development and don't really. Like they're not too involved with the release thing. I mean, I'll just be transparent when I was pto at OSA like we were just had so many things to deal with like release was. Not the thing that I was thinking about it would just be like someone from the release team was like Hey by the way we need a plus one here and I'll be like Oh crap. Yeah. Okay I will come in plus one that + + +10:21:08 am - Dan Smith: + + Event-based right. Yeah. + + +10:21:09 am - Mohammed Naser: + + exactly. So I to be honest, I don't know if that would kind of be a good signal because I think a lot of the even kind of activist projects are just + + +10:21:18 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay. + + +10:21:19 am - Mohammed Naser: + + they're not thinking about release, they're thinking about development. + + +10:21:24 am - Dan Smith: + + Yes. + + +10:21:27 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay, so I think you can continue discuss this next week or maybe in PTC. They are 20 minutes now, maybe moving to next topic. + + +10:21:40 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Is not sure I throw it in time, a + + +10:21:41 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:21:42 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +I throw it little summary about that and that we are going to discuss it next time and on the PG. And now for the next topic is the is the stable team process I throw it down a little summary about that, and that we are going to discuss it next time and on the PG. And now for the next topic is the is the stable team process change. So let me paste that. And the link that we have is to the review. Link then. + + +10:22:02 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. I think it has updated the pets. + + +10:22:06 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah, so I, I took the comments that you guys had when I tried to remove the extra crust and make it more concise and kind of list tears. Here's the changes. And then a little explanation as to why Hopefully, that makes more sense to people now. And if not, I'm happy to take input. + + +10:22:33 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I haven't had a chance to look over the most recent iteration. so, I'll probably agree that personally, at least. + + +10:22:43 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, feedback will come in the form of reviews. + + +10:22:47 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + There's yeah actually you it looks + + +10:22:49 am - Jay Bryant: + + That works for me. + + +10:22:50 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + good to me. The two things which we are proposing here, but yeah, let's review. + + +10:22:57 am - Jay Bryant: + + Okay. + + +10:22:58 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And comment there. + + +10:22:58 am - Jay Bryant: + + And I'll, I'll watch for those and be more proactive here. + + +10:23:05 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So and for the issue raised by, you know, willingness that few of those project has not merged. The stable branch patches for their documentation sidewalk. We said, like it's okay if single core from global stable team can just merge those patches because they are automated paths with tops update or don't get review. File update. + + +10:23:41 am - Amy Marrich: + + I'm afraid to ask this because I didn't look when we announced the release yesterday, but do we have The actual latest documentation. + + +10:23:47 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:23:51 am - Amy Marrich: + + For the Xena release. + + +10:23:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay. + + +10:23:58 am - Mohammed Naser: + + It was here. + + +10:24:01 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:24:02 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, we shared it during the opening for live episode today. I would guess that their links in the press release from yesterday, but It looked at closely. + + +10:24:13 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay? Because in the past, I've had to go after the fact, when I've had time and done like the deployment guidance and stuff. + + +10:24:31 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Cool. So let's review the stable thing. And maybe moving next. + + +10:24:39 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay, so the next one is the Zeenat tractor. Those there. As Xena already, but It's in a tracker still. + + +10:24:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Here, we + + +10:24:55 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + You have the link and we've got some items pending and some completed. Thankfully, So the first pending that's still there is December to drive the Y Cycle community wild goal. Okay, so we've got the volunteer security is not today with us and Kendall. I think on that. + + +10:25:19 am - Kendall Nelson: + +Yeah. So We were looking for somebody to write up the like pain points one but I don't think anybody has stepped up to do that. And as for the other one, I think it's the our back but I Yeah, we have that one accepted already. So we at least have something there, but I know previously we had said that we're not like requiring two goals or anything even if we don't. + + +10:25:54 am - Dan Smith: + + our back is, + + +10:25:55 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Oh sorry. + + +10:25:56 am - Dan Smith: + + Our back is like pretty juicy too. So + + +10:25:58 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, exactly. + + +10:25:59 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Practice. + + +10:25:59 am - Kendall Nelson: + + There's like plenty of work to be + + +10:26:00 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:26:01 am - Kendall Nelson: + + done there, given that it has to spend two releases, but I think even if we don't get somebody to step up + + +10:26:07 am - Dan Smith: + +Still So, if + + +10:26:09 am - Kendall Nelson: + + and like lead, the pain point one, that it's a secondary thing. We can work on in the background, even if it's not Formally a reasonable. + + +10:26:17 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Uh-huh. + + +10:26:19 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. So your plan is to not make that a really a community-wide goal and a pain point related thing because + + +10:26:27 am - Kendall Nelson: + + And unless somebody wants to step up and like, Write it up and lead it. + + +10:26:32 am - Dan Smith: + + but, but even still, I mean, That most of those docs were, some of them were pain points. Some of them were like, you know, room to vent, and it would be, I think it would be difficult. + + +10:26:45 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:26:46 am - Dan Smith: + + I would not want to have a community-wide goal of address, pain + + +10:26:47 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + oh, + + +10:26:50 am - Dan Smith: + + points, or reduced + + +10:26:52 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, just get better. + + +10:26:53 am - Dan Smith: + + yeah like suck less, I mean but I yeah I mean I just I went through a lot of those things and you know a + + +10:26:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:26:56 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:27:00 am - Dan Smith: + +lot of them were like Oh I hate how Nova Nova required like that's actually a triple O thing you're complaining about, you know, just lot of them were like Oh I hate how Nova required like that's actually a triple O thing you're complaining about, you know, just I don't know. + + +10:27:06 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:27:08 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, a lot of that. + + +10:27:10 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, but at least the one item like the OSC thing which We should take forward, but + + +10:27:16 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. Yeah. Taking taking things out of that and turning into a goal. Cool. + + +10:27:21 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + exactly. + + +10:27:21 am - Dan Smith: + +I just I just want to avoid like you know + + +10:27:21 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Now. + + +10:27:24 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:27:24 am - Dan Smith: + + this time, we're gonna suck less by 87%. You know, I don't know. + + +10:27:28 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. Like, that technical debt thing. Like 50% less suck. Yeah. + + +10:27:34 am - Dan Smith: + + Well. yeah, I mean technical debt like I don't know that that we've talked about having like maintenance, + + +10:27:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Well, I think having only our Oh, and + + +10:27:44 am - Dan Smith: + + Sorry. + + +10:27:48 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Your voice. You're saying something then or just + + +10:27:51 am - Dan Smith: + + I I was just in the middle of saying, + + +10:27:51 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:27:52 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + audio. + + +10:27:53 am - Dan Smith: + +saying, I don't think tech debt is a terrible thing because it's a little bit different because it's, like, We know what those things are. + + +10:27:59 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + basically, only me, I can't hear + + +10:28:02 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:28:02 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think we can all hear Dan, but it's kind of you have a problem on your + + +10:28:06 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah, I can hear him fine. + + +10:28:06 am - Mohammed Naser: + + side. Yeah. + + +10:28:09 am - Kendall Nelson: + + It's just, you got you. + + +10:28:11 am - Jay Bryant: + + He's on Hotel Wi-Fi. + + +10:28:14 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Until they're my phone. So there's that I mean, I'll hear you Dan, you can keep + + +10:28:23 am - Dan Smith: + + I know, I know, I just, I don't know, I wasn't even saying anything useful. + + +10:28:26 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + It's okay. + + +10:28:28 am - Dan Smith: + + But I think gantrum was, I mean, per usual. I think Gunsham was about to say though, that he thinks that secured secure our back as a + + +10:28:38 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yes. + + +10:28:38 am - Dan Smith: + + Sufficiently juicy. + + +10:28:40 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Exactly. + + +10:28:40 am - Dan Smith: + + Thing, I, I think that I totally agree. So, + + +10:28:43 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, I think were a fun. + + +10:28:46 am - Dan Smith: + + To agree that way. You can hear it. + + +10:28:49 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:28:49 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. Sir and Nptc, we can anyway, discuss. If something comes up, we can plan for jet cycle or something, but I think we are good on this. + + +10:28:57 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:28:58 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +think we are Really Really good job by candle and Rico for driving yoga. + + +10:29:03 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Agreed. Yeah. Cool. + + +10:29:08 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + So chemical attack completed item done. + + +10:29:11 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, I think yes. + + +10:29:11 am - Kendall Nelson: + + I think so. Yeah. + + +10:29:13 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Okay, great moving on that. So, to the next one is or maybe I will paste it. So that I don't lose it. Okay, I press it. And then the next one that we have is the one by me a day. So this is this review of the tags for usefulness and clean up and well we've done everything that we could I guess. And well, we're going to discuss this in Ptg. Hopefully someone else will chime in by the time, but I'm not really sure about that Gansham was more optimistic about that, but it didn't happen. + + +10:29:53 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + We have that in last week news later also. So I think + + +10:29:56 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, and you + + +10:29:57 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. See. But Yeah. + + +10:29:58 am - Kendall Nelson: + +Put + + +10:30:00 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + the last call. I agree. + + +10:30:02 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Yeah. include that in the newsletter that in the Yeah. Yeah, that was a good idea to include that in the newsletter and then discuss for in the PG and well close. This basically then Okay, so so this is left Independing State Msj, you have something on that. + + +10:30:18 am - Jay Bryant: + + No, I I think we can handle it. The PTG + + +10:30:22 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Yeah. Okay, I think we could remove the gate health check because it evolved into something Yeah. Okay. gate health check because it evolved into something regular something + + +10:30:32 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, I'll just moving it + + +10:30:33 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + that. + + +10:30:33 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. + + +10:30:34 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + It's just Someone that + + +10:30:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, just moving it in completed one + + +10:30:37 am - Dan Smith: + + He? + + +10:30:38 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + because + + +10:30:39 am - Dan Smith: + + but, We're going to keep doing it. We're just not going to keep it as a + + +10:30:42 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yes. + + +10:30:42 am - Dan Smith: + + pending thing again. + + +10:30:43 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. Three. + + +10:30:46 am - Dan Smith: + + I just want to, I mean I think that + + +10:30:46 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay. So + + +10:30:47 am - Dan Smith: + +life has significant sucked significantly less which I think Kendall would probably put on some sort of quote for a major industry article or something. + + +10:30:58 am - Kendall Nelson: + + yeah, Techcrunch + + +10:30:58 am - Dan Smith: + +But I mean I we definitely have made progress. I think by highlighting that stuff. I mean even actually that I forget his name of the neutron guy mentioned on the in. For yeah like that you + + +10:31:09 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Love. + + +10:31:12 am - Dan Smith: + +know, I just found out that we still are the, you know, giant elephant in the room in You know I just found out that we still are the, you know, giant elephant in the room in terms of capacity. So like I feel like people are actually paying attention to it, which is really cool. + + +10:31:25 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +And neutral has their like weekly separate meeting on CI especially, and actually good. Tracking. Okay, so the tech thing also, I think we can just move it because we are going to discuss in Ptz and if something comes up, you can continue in yoga. + + +10:31:45 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + mm-hmm. Yeah, so we have only left the stable card in process change. This was already discussed today. + + +10:31:52 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, let's review. + + +10:31:54 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah, so just review that and project health checks. Yeah, we'll also discuss that. Okay, so it still pending and we can + + +10:32:01 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:32:03 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + move on to the next topic that we have for today. And it's This time, it's technical writing, toxic needs a chair and more + + +10:32:08 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, + + +10:32:09 am - Radosław Piliszek: + +Toxic maintainers. And continue on. + + +10:32:15 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yes has been mailing list. Different set, won't be able to continue at share. So we need someone, There are very less incoming traffic in terms of advice from documentation or something. But someone is we need there to keep the open stack themes. And not failing or something. If someone asks top question, so we need some chair for that sick. so, I don't know whom to us or what. We should do about it. or just have this Underpc, if someone asked TC can just help + + +10:33:01 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I guess the question is, what are the responsibilities that need to be done? Since we've like decentralized the + + +10:33:08 am - Kendall Nelson: + + so basically, + + +10:33:08 am - Mohammed Naser: + + heck out of docs + + +10:33:10 am - Kendall Nelson: + +The whole time, this team has existed. It's the like leaders been listed as like, Alex Settle, who is like not been around basically since the SIG was created. and only like, a month ago, there was an email thread that like Andreas started with Alex and Doug and Steven and Alex was like, Well, it's not me anymore. And Doug was like me either, and they were like, Let's add Kendall. And I was like, No, let's not say we didn't, but then I was added on the like, the launchpad group and then they all like pieced out. So, I am not volunteering for this and would love to hand it over to somebody else. But right now, my name is on the + + +10:33:56 am - Mohammed Naser: + + so, + + +10:33:57 am - Kendall Nelson: + + thing for the launchpad. + + +10:33:59 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I guess my question is, what did Andreas reach about just to kind of have an idea of what is the thing that? + + +10:34:03 am - Kendall Nelson: + + He was removing himself from the list of admins. + + +10:34:06 am - Mohammed Naser: + + So that's what he was reaching about. + + +10:34:07 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, + + +10:34:08 am - Kendall Nelson: + + And he was like someone else should + + +10:34:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + If I, + + +10:34:10 am - Kendall Nelson: + + be an admin that's actually still there. And I'm like, + + +10:34:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Okay, so so maybe this all it comes down to an admin for what? + + +10:34:15 am - Kendall Nelson: + + No. + + +10:34:19 am - Mohammed Naser: + + there like a UI or + + +10:34:19 am - Kendall Nelson: + + The launchpad. It's like the docs thing repo or + + +10:34:24 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Okay. + + +10:34:24 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + In in term of Prepository, we have + + +10:34:25 am - Kendall Nelson: + + whatever. I'm not. + + +10:34:26 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + like training guide, contributes, turgides, API site, under the sick. + + +10:34:33 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:34:34 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Which has I think very less incoming thing, but if there are like few patches in contributor guides, we need people to take care. + + +10:34:41 am - Mohammed Naser: + + so, + + +10:34:41 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:34:43 am - Mohammed Naser: + +The Contributor Guide. So it's Contributor Guide and all this other stuff. I think it's probably fine to just maybe add like TC members as cores onto that. Just add the whole TC network group into that group and just call it a day from there. + + +10:34:59 am - Kendall Nelson: + + I'd be but + + +10:35:00 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And one more big responsibility. I think was if any project has any question about their documentation rearranging or something? + + +10:35:08 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:35:09 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + they can answer, but I think that is pretty much standardized now + + +10:35:11 am - Amy Marrich: + + All right. I want to say like six months ago, + + +10:35:14 am - Kendall Nelson: + + yeah. + + +10:35:15 am - Amy Marrich: + + there was a call for more Doc course. That's when I joined the Dot chord + + +10:35:22 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. + + +10:35:22 am - Amy Marrich: + + but I always thought it was Steven and Andreas who were the chairs so I'm surprised that looks well. + + +10:35:28 am - Kendall Nelson: + + They heard. + + +10:35:30 am - Amy Marrich: + + I'm surprised Alex was still listed because I don't remember seeing Alex's name and I would have like read flagged that one. + + +10:35:34 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, + + +10:35:34 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Okay. Well, she might not have been in the CIGS. Like Sig governance information, but she was still an admin in Launchpad. + + +10:35:45 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. All right, that makes more sense. + + +10:35:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Thing. Yeah. + + +10:35:47 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Because I'm pretty sure I cleaned that up in my audit of that, but + + +10:35:48 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, For Repository Core Group. I think we have, you know, people + + +10:35:56 am - Kendall Nelson: + + yeah. + + +10:35:56 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + to handle the passage and all. + + +10:35:56 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yeah. + + +10:35:57 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + It's just about like the chair for the sake, who can give the guidance to documentation things, which + + +10:36:04 am - Kendall Nelson: + + A point of contact. + + +10:36:05 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, point of contact, which we + + +10:36:06 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yes. + + +10:36:06 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +might not need now because a lot of the documentation are now standard on the project side. so, continuing with the same group of people on repository management and having like if you have any documentation things asked PC, I think that can be the one one possible option. if you don't have anyone any volunteer to share it, + + +10:36:31 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Here. I mean I see it as like this doesn't seem to be like a very heavy intense thing. It just seems to be reviewing and answering questions if need be. So we don't need all that extra infrastructure to maintain something that doesn't Really, I don't see serve much, but I + + +10:36:43 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:36:45 am - Mohammed Naser: + +would just say Add TC members as cores to those repos at the SID controls and then retire, the documentation sake. I think it's pretty much. + + +10:36:56 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Or yeah retire make it inactive or whatever. The other adjectives are we have this options? + + +10:37:05 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. I think I'm my favorite that. + + +10:37:11 am - Amy Marrich: + + And then if there's an issue, they'll contact the TC. + + +10:37:15 am - Kendall Nelson: + + The teeth? Yeah. + + +10:37:16 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:37:16 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Oh yeah. + + +10:37:17 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:37:19 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + And even this discussion started Openstack discuss. We still have people who used to handle the documentation they can help also right? So So, maybe next item is just a close this SIG and a technical committee member to repository things. + + +10:37:37 am - Amy Marrich: + + Out of curiosity. Do we have a checklist for releases because I've never been PTL where we can make sure? That is part of the release cycle, they're making sure they're documentation is done. For that release. + + +10:37:55 am - Dan Smith: + + I'm not really sure what that means. + + +10:37:57 am - Mohammed Naser: + + so, + + +10:37:59 am - Dan Smith: + + I mean, don't these all I mean, these are all just generated, right? + + +10:38:04 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, so I guess as long as they're + + +10:38:05 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:38:05 am - Mohammed Naser: + + carrying it over from the branch before the new branch they're just going to get it now. Are they up to date with everything + + +10:38:10 am - Dan Smith: + + Right. + + +10:38:11 am - Mohammed Naser: + + new? Maybe not. + + +10:38:12 am - Dan Smith: + + well, that's a different that's a different question but I mean + + +10:38:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, but is it published probably + + +10:38:14 am - Kendall Nelson: + + that's, + + +10:38:16 am - Dan Smith: + + But, I mean, like, + + +10:38:17 am - Mohammed Naser: + + the release before is published? + + +10:38:18 am - Dan Smith: + + But we don't just have to. + + +10:38:19 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah. + + +10:38:20 am - Amy Marrich: + + That I try to go back and update the + + +10:38:21 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + There. + + +10:38:22 am - Amy Marrich: + + deployment guides or any projects. I'm involved with go through the and make sure that anything new is there, but I don't go through everybody's projects. I don't have the time for that. + + +10:38:31 am - Dan Smith: + + so you're not asking about just having Dock links and docs generated named to the release, you're asking, if they've done all the work to update all the docs, + + +10:38:41 am - Amy Marrich: + + That would be nice. + + +10:38:43 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah, I know. + + +10:38:44 am - Amy Marrich: + + I mean. + + +10:38:44 am - Dan Smith: + + But + + +10:38:45 am - Amy Marrich: + +We went from the world's Crappiest docs. When I started with Openstack with Grizzly, And then we ended up with some of the best documentation and open source. And it kind of hurts to see that we're not updating stuff and keeping things going, + + +10:38:58 am - Dan Smith: + + but well, just just From my perspective, updating docs is + + +10:39:02 am - Kendall Nelson: + + What? + + +10:39:03 am - Dan Smith: + +not a release, talk, a release task. It's a when we merge a thing that's when the docs need to get updated, so putting it on a Ptl's like release checklist is not really. Doesn't really make sense to me. + + +10:39:20 am - Kendall Nelson: + + The core team for that project should be forcing. Those dock changes as a part of the coaching. + + +10:39:25 am - Dan Smith: + + Right. Right. Yeah. So I mean I would not expect it to be on anyone's release checklist personally. + + +10:39:32 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Agreed. + + +10:39:32 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay, but it should be on the definition of done for a large. Okay? Got it. + + +10:39:36 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Yeah, just same way. You should have unit, tests, unit test documentation, or at least note, + + +10:39:41 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Now. + + +10:39:42 am - Kendall Nelson: + + if that's required and the code + + +10:39:43 am - Dan Smith: + + Right. + + +10:39:44 am - Kendall Nelson: + + is everything. That should be in there. + + +10:39:45 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yep. + + +10:39:47 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. + + +10:39:49 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so put like to take x item for this sick closer and adding adding the repository under TC things and even volunteers. + + +10:40:03 am - Mohammed Naser: + + But I see Kendall raising her hand right now. Haha. + + +10:40:08 am - Kendall Nelson: + + Now I'm like fidgeting with my fingers and subconsciously flipping + + +10:40:12 am - Mohammed Naser: + + - I'm just, + + +10:40:12 am - Kendall Nelson: + + everybody off. It's fine. + + +10:40:13 am - Dan Smith: + + I saw it. I saw it. + + +10:40:14 am - Kendall Nelson: + + You know, it happened. + + +10:40:15 am - Mohammed Naser: + + yeah. + + +10:40:17 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay, so + + +10:40:19 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I can help out with that. + + +10:40:19 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + yeah. Good. So I'll let your name homework. + + +10:40:24 am - Mohammed Naser: + + So election is gonna be move the sick to retired and if you make a change in the + + +10:40:29 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:40:33 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I got, what is it called? The ACLs to TC and also I guess + + +10:40:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + so, Yeah. + + +10:40:38 am - Mohammed Naser: + +And also I guess whoever's the chair could if they could add me so that I can make the change to the ACLs I guess. + + +10:40:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, and I think it's course like an at you. + + +10:40:49 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, if you can add me and then that way, I can add the TC members or you + + +10:40:51 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, + + +10:40:52 am - Mohammed Naser: + + can just add TC members, right? + + +10:40:53 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Oh yeah, exactly. Sure, so we have 20 minute left. Let's move to the LK topic. So we have 10 Listen here, Clark? Yeah, join. + + +10:41:11 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Yep. Yes. And value + + +10:41:12 am - Amy Marrich: + + Let me get down. + + +10:41:12 am - Clark Boylan: + + Yes, I'm here. + + +10:41:15 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah, thanks for joining and English said He's in another conference. and once we need, + + +10:41:27 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + I think we need Daniel was with us before but he left, I guess. + + +10:41:31 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Mmm. Yeah, I think him on the essay or so, but maybe you can start + + +10:41:34 am - Amy Marrich: + + Something. + + +10:41:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Thanks. + + +10:41:37 am - Amy Marrich: + + Give me a few minutes to get him. He went to do some work while we were doing other things. + + +10:41:43 am - Radosław Piliszek: + + Okay. + + +10:42:13 am - Mohammed Naser: + +And a super related. But unrelated thing to this topic, I am Quite kind of like disappointed a little bit. Of the way that we're settling to run Elasticsearch is on AWS. I feel like just from like an openstack perspective, I'm kind of like I get it because it's casein, managed to put just like I really wish that we could run it somehow on an actual openstack cloud. I feel like that's kind of it's a letdown for me to be honest. It's very, it's it's really a bummer. + + +10:42:46 am - Allison Randal: + + I know. And and I would say we should + + +10:42:47 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I will gladly all the resources if somebody wants to run the VMs but I get that it's more than running VMs. That's kind of. What I'm torn up. + + +10:42:58 am - Allison Randal: + +Yeah, if I would say if open search was farther along, you know? Like so part of this is like, Oh, elastic search is not open source anymore and that's like a big catch in the throat for anything we do with this. When open search is farther along I suspect, we will find managed services for it on Openstack. + + +10:43:19 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:43:19 am - Allison Randal: + +So, I wouldn't feel like we're tied to this forever. but one of the things when I found when I was reaching out, is for our existing infrastructure providers for Even for other companies, engaged in the foundation, like a six terabyte elasticsearch cluster is a big ask. And we're compromising either way, + + +10:43:43 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Haha. + + +10:43:44 am - Allison Randal: + + we're compromising. If we use elasticsearch, + + +10:43:44 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:43:47 am - Allison Randal: + + Or compromising if we run it on AWS. + + +10:43:50 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:43:51 am - Amy Marrich: + + What about Azure? + + +10:43:54 am - Allison Randal: + +Oh they actually as their azure offered to donate 20k as well of credits. But that would be elasticsearch and not open search. And the engagement with the open 13 + + +10:44:03 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:44:04 am - Allison Randal: + +was just like they are they are excited about openstacks use, they're excited about supporting us. There's excited about engaging in the openstack in, like open infrastructure summit and blog posts, you know, like it's a very like with with Microsoft it was just yeah, sure. Here's 20k of credits fine. + + +10:44:28 am - Mohammed Naser: + + You know. + + +10:44:29 am - Allison Randal: + +But But with open search, there were like, Yeah, this is great. Let's work together kind of thing. It was just like a totally different, + + +10:44:38 am - Clark Boylan: + + Yeah. + + +10:44:41 am - Allison Randal: + + totally different + + +10:44:41 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think. + + +10:44:41 am - Allison Randal: + + Involved level of involvement. + + +10:44:41 am - Mohammed Naser: + + I think it all comes down to if we + + +10:44:41 am - Clark Boylan: + + yeah, I mean + + +10:44:42 am - Mohammed Naser: + +just need somebody to run it, even though open search is available but no one Like it managed services. There's a nice luxuries that come with that and We don't have the resources to run, open search. I think in terms of human power. + + +10:44:53 am - Clark Boylan: + + One thing I'll mention with, with + + +10:44:54 am - Amy Marrich: + + Dandy. + + +10:44:55 am - Clark Boylan: + +Azure real quick is. Yeah. They're like, Here's the credits, but you go over that. and we're gonna start charging it and Like, there's a credit card on file, open. Search was all like, Let's figure out what you need and then we'll try and do our best to, you know, make that donation work. It's just A very different approach I think and they're very supportive on the open search side. It seems like, which is nice to see. + + +10:45:17 am - Amy Marrich: + + Yeah, I was just thinking we could take advantage of them, being an + + +10:45:18 am - Jay Bryant: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:20 am - Amy Marrich: + + incoming platinum, member Dan. Do you have any other ways of pinging? Daniel, I did Irc and Gnat. + + +10:45:28 am - Dan Smith: + + No. + + +10:45:28 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + These wind in starting, right? + + +10:45:28 am - Amy Marrich: + + Okay. + + +10:45:32 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + So maybe I'm actually or call. + + +10:45:34 am - Mohammed Naser: + + There is. + + +10:45:35 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:35 am - Clark Boylan: + + Oh, + + +10:45:36 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +10:45:36 am - Jay Bryant: + + Areas. Say, his name three times. + + +10:45:41 am - Amy Marrich: + + I just had a fun one more away. + + +10:45:42 am - Daniel Pawlik: + + Hey. + + +10:45:43 am - Amy Marrich: + + Saying his name was it? + + +10:45:45 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Cool. So Alison would you like to just add the status from what we discussed? Previously in previous meeting and then we continue on the things. + + +10:45:54 am - Allison Randal: + +Yeah, I mean I guess the quick summary is We have the offer of the donated credits which should give us the The Running Elk Stack equivalent. I think resources to do, the migration has been a big obstacle beginning, Like the reason this came even even from, you know, like the up as an issue in March, is, How do we We don't have the resources to do the migration. So Daniel has gotten permission to work on it, and that's very helpful. And then, I think it was Muhammad who suggested in one of our earlier calls, What about contracted work to to help? With the migration like even if it's not you know, even if it's not a dedicated resource, could we find someone? And I said at the time, It is really hard to find people with the right set of skills who are willing to work for a brief period of time under open source project, but I did follow up through some context. I don't know if you know, Carl Fogel, he was a virgin developer but he's like written books on open source, collaborations and stuff like that. So I, I followed up through him, found the elastic search employee, who does contracting, but he said, I can't do this one because there's a, There's a sort of, like, political tension between Amazon and Elastic because of their lasting going through proprietary. And anyway, but he worked very closely with this guy, Ross, Tomlinson, in fact, they work. They had a company to gather before this guy went to took the job with Elastic and then Ross is continued doing consulting. So and he said, he's, he has even recently, you know, some of his projects have been Doing migrations to open search from Elasticsearch. So now it not only he has the skills but you know like he'll kind of be able to do it more rapidly than any of us could because we'd have to go through and learn about the differences between all the last search and new open search and he can do that. Do that part pretty quickly. So, we have and, you know, he's estimate for the amount of time, it would take to do, the migration, I thought was quite reasonable and we have a sponsor willing to take care of that. So, I mean I think it puts us into the realm of instead of not sure if we have the resources, it's puts us into the realm of. I think we have the resources, we definitely need Daniel's expertise as well because you know, Ross doesn't know anything about Zool or Openstack Vi. Whereas Daniel is going to be much better at working at like, you know, I know Clark and and fungi one of my great, the gear man workers to something that pulls the those will API or some other polling service. So I think Daniel's expertise, it's gonna be really helpful there because Ross wouldn't know anything about Zooler, Openstack ci So I think we have the resources, but there is still this, you know, it's a in one sense it's it's not dogfooding because it's not on openstack, but in another sense what we talked about from the beginning for this one services, it's externally enough That this one service could be, it could be on anything. I think we should try to keep, you know, for example either the gear man workers or the zool polling a service, we should keep that on openstack VMs and I don't + + +10:49:12 am - Dan Smith: + + That parents that would be right. + + +10:49:16 am - Allison Randal: + + That, that would be the intention is + + +10:49:17 am - Dan Smith: + + I mean. + + +10:49:17 am - Allison Randal: + + keep all of that on Openstack VMs. + + +10:49:18 am - Dan Smith: + + but, But I mean, like that's all glue on + + +10:49:21 am - Allison Randal: + + Yeah. + + +10:49:23 am - Dan Smith: + +our end that's gonna run on our infra anyway, I would think so. I don't think that that's going to be. A problem right? Like nobody would I wouldn't think would say Yeah let's put all that polling stuff in yet a third Place, right. So + + +10:49:39 am - Allison Randal: + +I don't know yet where it would be hosted because the existing stuff is hosted under open Dove on I believe Rackspace and I think the intention is to get rid of those resources. + + +10:49:46 am - Clark Boylan: + + Yes. + + +10:49:48 am - Allison Randal: + +So it would be under the taxig and it would be possibly a different one of our infrastructure providers. Like one of our other donors, but it wouldn't be. I mean, we're not talking to six terabyte elastic. Search cluster, right? This is, this is like some workers that do you know, just pull, pull + + +10:50:07 am - Dan Smith: + + Right. + + +10:50:09 am - Allison Randal: + + from the logs and push them to log staff and that's it. + + +10:50:11 am - Dan Smith: + +Yeah, I'm just saying like, you know, we've if we're gonna grab this external service that we push logs to and then we need to write some new stuff that runs in a VM somewhere to do the glue. Like we don't just like go looking for some other place to run. VMs, we run that where we run VMs for other stuff. + + +10:50:28 am - Allison Randal: + + Where in the existing places? + + +10:50:29 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah, yeah. + + +10:50:29 am - Allison Randal: + + Yeah, yeah. + + +10:50:31 am - Mohammed Naser: + +hey, just like as a complete thought, I mean, Does that make sense to maybe ask on if it's possible for the contractor to set up the cluster to live in an openstack cloud? So not using a managed service but actually just like, how much more would it cost us to run it inside VMs somewhere? + + +10:50:50 am - Allison Randal: + + I mean. We're talking about 45k of donated. + + +10:50:56 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:50:56 am - Allison Randal: + +Credit. and that's probably about what we're looking at, in terms of, I mean, I don't know, Clark, could say more about what it what it would cost now if we were paying for it on Rackspace, which we aren't + + +10:51:06 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:51:08 am - Clark Boylan: + +Oh yeah, I mean, I have to look at their numbers. The rackspaces cloud pricing is always weird because they inflated it with their, like, idea of support. + + +10:51:15 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:51:16 am - Clark Boylan: + +which we like don't use, but Yeah it wouldn't it's the most expensive piece of infrastructure that the team runs today is elasticsearch like it's more than + + +10:51:28 am - Mohammed Naser: + + So, like, for example, how many days of memory, I guess my question. I know we talked about six terabytes + + +10:51:32 am - Clark Boylan: + + it's + + +10:51:32 am - Mohammed Naser: + + of disk usage + + +10:51:36 am - Clark Boylan: + + 240 gig of memory. + + +10:51:38 am - Mohammed Naser: + + okay, well, + + +10:51:39 am - Clark Boylan: + + So, it's 60. + + +10:51:39 am - Dan Smith: + + but, + + +10:51:41 am - Clark Boylan: + + Oh sorry. No 360. It's 60 by 6. + + +10:51:41 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Sorry. Okay. like, + + +10:51:46 am - Allison Randal: + + And you need you need to add on top of that. + + +10:51:52 am - Dan Smith: + + Keep it running. + + +10:51:52 am - Allison Randal: + + The admin time to run that cluster as + + +10:51:53 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah, I know. + + +10:51:53 am - Allison Randal: + +well, which is where we're we're hitting the wall, we don't have it. When Daniel, if we have like that managed open search service like, even Daniel by himself, I hope we can inspire more people to join once we get it up, but even Daniel by himself, could kind of like, keep the, the little bits that we need running, right? So, it's kind of like with the donation, it kind of puts it into around that a volunteer can manage what we need to manage with the + + +10:52:17 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:52:18 am - Allison Randal: + + entire out cluster. + + +10:52:18 am - Mohammed Naser: + + No. + + +10:52:20 am - Allison Randal: + + It's like we really need like at least two full-time people. + + +10:52:24 am - Dan Smith: + + Yeah. + + +10:52:26 am - Allison Randal: + + And probably more than that. + + +10:52:26 am - Dan Smith: + + And like we all use things that are + + +10:52:28 am - Allison Randal: + + Honestly. + + +10:52:29 am - Dan Smith: + +hosted in proprietary clouds. Like Oh, I don't know. The video conference service were on right now. You know, like it becomes a black box to us. It's, it's cool to run all of our stuff, but it's like super expensive, you know, not, not in terms of things + + +10:52:44 am - Mohammed Naser: + + No. + + +10:52:44 am - Dan Smith: + +Not, not that you can buy expensive, right? So, + + +10:52:48 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Time. + + +10:52:48 am - Dan Smith: + +Yeah, it just doesn't it seems like the right thing to do to me. and and the openstack part of this, the ingest still still is us still running on our stuff like man. + + +10:53:02 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:53:04 am - Jay Bryant: + +A. A kind of seems like if we say, No, we're biting the hand that feeds us. So, you know, we've got an opportunity here, let's make use of it. + + +10:53:16 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I guess the one thing and I'll put it out there and I don't think, but to keep in mind I've heard of You know, these donations usually are renewables on a certain period of time. So I guess like it is possible that one day we wake up and they decide that it's not going to renewed but for transparency that is the case. Also with other clouds that we're using right now. So, It is something to keep in mind as well. + + +10:53:45 am - Allison Randal: + +it's it's also possible that a year from now or two or three like the TC whoever they are at the time may decide, okay, this has been a great service, we really appreciate it and now we have this open search managed service on an openstack cloud and they're willing to donate time and we're just going to move off of it + + +10:53:55 am - Mohammed Naser: + + You know. + + +10:53:57 am - Allison Randal: + + because we don't need it anymore. + + +10:53:58 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:53:58 am - Allison Randal: + + It was great for a time but + + +10:53:59 am - Dan Smith: + + but, but also in that scenario, in the + + +10:54:01 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, + + +10:54:04 am - Dan Smith: + +scenario that Mohammed just mentioned you. You also end up with a little bit of a pressure relief, valve, right? Like this, this donation may dry up but it's not likely to dry up in the like, you know, we're deleting all your data tomorrow. It's more like, well, if we can quickly find somebody to pay for that thing, we can keep it running, you know, at cost while we figure out the next option, right? Whereas, if you build the scenario that Mohamed just mentioned you. You also end up with a little bit of a pressure relief, valve, right? Like this, this donation may dry up but it's not likely to dry up in the like, you know, we're deleting all your data tomorrow. It's more like, well, if we can quickly find somebody to pay for that thing, we can keep it running, you know, at cost while we figure out the next option, right? Whereas, if you build the thing, Run it yourself and that team dries up which Oh it will. Then you kind of end up in the situation that we're in right now. Whereas like don't anybody go near it? Because it might fall over, right? And it just, it seems to me like, we've already been burned by, you know, like, Oh, Clark can just do this. And and, you know, + + +10:54:57 am - Allison Randal: + + Clark is a finite resource. + + +10:54:58 am - Dan Smith: + + You get what you pay for. Yeah. Well yeah. + + +10:55:01 am - Clark Boylan: + +Another thing worth mentioning with the elasticsearch, the way we use it is it's highly ephemeral already, which means that the cost of moving is relatively like a lot of databases that exist out there. You never want to move them because, you know, they need to be up all the time and the data spans a decade. We don't have that like concern here and so moving is less of the problem for us. You know, the problem is in the the day-to-day just maintenance and keeping it moving along and ensuring it's there when you need to query it. But that means, you know, if you have to take a week where sorry it's it's down because we're just gonna start + + +10:55:34 am - Dan Smith: + + Stop now. + + +10:55:36 am - Clark Boylan: + + over here instead. You know, that's that's a hit that is manageable. + + +10:55:41 am - Dan Smith: + +Right. Like you could You could just say, Well, sorry, we have to dump our history and we're building history over here and you can start finding bugs again in a week, right? + + +10:55:51 am - Clark Boylan: + + Yeah. + + +10:55:51 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Yeah, well, for the record, if anyone wants to unlock a search on VMs inside Vexost, I don't think that that's too much resources for us to provide, but I yeah, I see totally see the Like the whole elasticsearch running, it is a very complex thing and I personally avoided as much as I can because I think it's a pain to deal with. So + + +10:56:16 am - Allison Randal: + + And I think it's very possible in evacuating rackspace. That Vex host may be our, our first choice for everything else that we keep running in openstack like all + + +10:56:25 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Yeah, I know. Like at the end of the day while it Yeah, I know. Like at the end of the day while it I Yeah, I know that's like I said it. Like at the end of the day while it I + + +10:56:26 am - Allison Randal: + + the glue. So, + + +10:56:27 am - Mohammed Naser: + +Like at the end of the day while it Like at the end of the day while it, I don't want to trivialize the infrastructure, but that barely kind of is not really that I don't want to trivialize the infrastructure but that barely kind of, is not really that much. I mean clouds make a lot of money and with there's a lot of margins and so you look at the cost of how much VMs you're running, and it's not that much. So in terms of cost for us, so, you know, we I'd like to also keep that open if someone wants to ever Pick this sort of thing up. + + +10:56:52 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Okay. And for now I think listen it's one year donation, right? Or is? + + +10:57:00 am - Allison Randal: + +He I mean the way that Tom described it was perpetual but I know that that doesn't really mean perpetual but it's not a one year, it's just it's just they said it up and I know with leadership changes there's some possibility that that may not be + + +10:57:14 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +Yeah. Okay. + + +10:57:15 am - Allison Randal: + +forever but the way it's set up, it's not we have to ask them again in a year forever. But the way it's set up, it's not we have to ask them again in a year. The way it's set up is we just give this to you, you know, it'll just reappear automatic. The credits will reappear in your account automatically. + + +10:57:26 am - Mohammed Naser: + +I think borrowing, what? Like the whole, like dog food and thing, I think it's an excellent idea. It'll take a whole load off of our infrastructure team. It's got delegated. And we're gonna, I think form a good relationship with the open search community as well as the finances. I think, what was proposed is extremely reasonable, like beyond reasonable to do that. I guess the only question that I had is in terms of like, follow-up. Like I think given that the open and Deaf community is going to be a customer, you know, who's going to kind of own that relationship and like own the AWS account own, the following up on making sure things are, you know, getting delivered like like Hey is the setup, something needs? Because that's something we can Clark can help with or Daniel or just to kind of like represent our community in this. Sort of thing. + + +10:58:20 am - Clark Boylan: + +Yes, I think that's the one of the major things that we need to make a decision on probably soon as this picks up. Because on the open depth side, we're hesitant to say Yeah, we'll do all this stuff because we already know that the first time we asked for help in the second time and then the nth time, no one is willing to help like in an open dev level. Right? And so it's tricky for us to say, Yeah, we'll do these things for this one off that. Apparently, if you do a specific thing, then you can get help. Because that just puts the burden back on us for all of that, like, tertiary stuff. + + +10:58:54 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +10:58:54 am - Clark Boylan: + +And we know we're not getting help for any of that tertiary stuff anymore like we've asked and so it's we're in a tricky position. One of the things that I suggested we could do is, you know, we could run. Like for example the the ingest stuff we could we could spin up the new VMs for that on vexost. But you know that be our relationship is we're basically just curating the Basically, we're like the hardware provider in a weird proxy way. Because we have that relationship we'd already have credentials in it. That is less work all around. but then yeah the for the new thing, like the AWS stuff like, yeah, I think we need to have a discussion on like, you know, do we just spin up a new repo and openstack space and and let the openstack people who are interested in this run it. + + +10:59:46 am - Mohammed Naser: + + yeah, but I think + + +10:59:46 am - Clark Boylan: + + because that is, So, go ahead. + + +10:59:49 am - Mohammed Naser: + +So I think a good idea is I don't know, does anyone know how the Kubernetes world do it? Because I know they do like CNCF everything is like software as a service. So how do they deal with that sort of thing? + + +11:00:03 am - Clark Boylan: + + It's been a few years since I talked to them when I talked to them in the past it's all like everything is a one-off with them like because they + + +11:00:09 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Okay. + + +11:00:09 am - Clark Boylan: + + don't use any of the LF stuff. So everything is like so-and-so. + + +11:00:11 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +11:00:13 am - Clark Boylan: + + this thing and just it you know I + + +11:00:16 am - Mohammed Naser: + + They own it. + + +11:00:16 am - Clark Boylan: + + don't I + + +11:00:17 am - Mohammed Naser: + + They manage it. They send their thing, okay? + + +11:00:17 am - Clark Boylan: + + yeah. But I don't know if that's changed since it's been like a few years + + +11:00:24 am - Mohammed Naser: + + You know. + + +11:00:24 am - Clark Boylan: + + since I really had a discussion with them on that, on the LF side. + + +11:00:26 am - Mohammed Naser: + +You know. + + +11:00:27 am - Clark Boylan: + +It's very centrally managed. And they do like products that like, you can have a Jenkins plus a Garrett, or you can have a this bliss of that and it's, it's Like they don't do special customization on top of that, or whatever, like it's, it's very much like, this is what we're able to do cookie cutter, and that's what they offer. + + +11:00:44 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Right. + + +11:00:46 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + I think we are on time, but if everyone okay, we can extend it to five to ten more minute. + + +11:00:52 am - Mohammed Naser: + + Yeah. + + +11:00:52 am - Clark Boylan: + + You're not no problems here. + + +11:00:53 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + okay, so one thing, like the gear men thing, we want that to be part of this migration, or as like, after the migration, we can, we can work on Replacement, or something. + + +11:01:05 am - Clark Boylan: + +Well. So the ingest side is part of the issue, right? Like all of the whole thing from from Gearman all the way through to Elasticsearch was running on old software that needs updating so yeah, the the ideal here is that, you know, open search for places the last search component and a modern Cabana and log stash. Become supportable cabana is included in open. Search product is my understanding, But the log stash ingestion piece, that's something that we would have to continue to run. + + +11:01:35 am - Allison Randal: + +Yeah, and the way Ross proposed it is that he would run that integrated with the open search and and the open Search cubano. + + +11:01:44 am - Clark Boylan: + + Okay. + + +11:01:45 am - Allison Randal: + +So it would just be so all the only So essentially, the things that we So essentially, the things that we would have to worry about is all the only thing. So essentially, the things that we would have to worry about is just the pieces that are + + +11:01:54 am - Clark Boylan: + + Got it. + + +11:01:55 am - Allison Randal: + + extracting from Kibana. + + +11:01:57 am - Clark Boylan: + + The events. + + +11:01:57 am - Allison Randal: + + And yeah. + + +11:01:58 am - Clark Boylan: + +Yeah. And that. And like I said, I I think from the opened up perspective, I think we can, we can be like the hard work, quote, Unquote hardware, providing for, that's on top of Bexhost to run that. Piece in the middle. But I don't think that we we wouldn't be writing the configuration management for it. You know, we wouldn't be You know, our duty theirs to hit the power button if that's necessary. And you know, work with the cloud provider to, you know, sort out like why is the networking not working, or whatever that may be. But the actual services that are running, I think that component instantly, you know, owned by the group, that's taking this on which, you know, it sounds like we'll fit underneath xig is part of what it's back. And that's just because we have, you know, open Dev has asked for help now for years to do these things and we can't get help for it, and so, It's it's puts us into really tenuous position. I think to take on responsibility when You know, it just expands that. The demands on us when we do that. Which is what we're trying to avoid. + + +11:03:06 am - Allison Randal: + +Yeah, I think. From what I understand. So, like the pieces I see are so there's the piece of the sort of, like legal relationship with, Amazon and that's handled by Jonathan and Terry. So that's handled by Openstack. They're open infra staff and that's very, that's pretty minor. We've already talked through it with them. They're ready to go. If the teacher, it's basically it's the TC's decision and they're ready to go. If you need that, in terms of who owns it sounds like in the last meeting, the TC decided That's the taxig so that works. So that means that Daniel's volunteer + + +11:03:41 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +11:03:41 am - Allison Randal: + +time is under the tax thing. I think we still need some admin time and I'm happy to volunteer that under the tax thing. Like I'm just like volunteering the time to the taxi but it's basically just Making sure that we get the agreement signed making sure that there's going to be one sort of master account on AWS. Making sure the right people have that. I'm not sure who that is. But yet, I mean, it's kind of in the hands of the taxig which may mean to begin with, it's just Daniel and like Jeremy as a backup and Clark is back up. And that's it. Just so that + + +11:04:14 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + but, Yeah. + + +11:04:17 am - Allison Randal: + + It's there. + + +11:04:18 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + +What one of the concern? Like fungi mentioned in last meeting also, like in taxi, he's the only one now helping and he mentioned like as long as we have the only Internet like Daniel or other people helping is okay but if in future we don't have one in there then we have to rethink of these services again. Because it's not like again, putting it on Clark, or friendly hands. Okay. Now, no one is there. So you have to take care. So, For now under the tactic, it sounds good. And then later on, we keep monitoring + + +11:04:54 am - Allison Randal: + + But I think the understanding is the + + +11:04:55 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + The integration. + + +11:04:56 am - Allison Randal: + + Taxig. Is the existing members of the Taxig are not expected to spend time on this. They just offering to be sort of the + + +11:05:01 am - Ghanshyam Mann: + + Yeah. + + +11:05:02 am - Allison Randal: + + governing structure for it and for now it's like Daniel and I and Ross are offering to spend the time on it and I'm kind of hoping if we can do + + +11:05:09 am - Clark Boylan: + + Yeah. + + +11:05:10 am - Allison Randal: + + some interesting talks about this exciting new, you know, open source open search Openstack CI stuff. That actually will start to get a few more volunteers and we when we've pushed it to a point that the work involved is actually reasonable. For volunteer, which it is not right now. + + + + +____________________________________________________________________________ + + + + +Chat + + +10:08:11 am - Amy Marrich: +dpawllik + + +10:23:56 am - Mohammed Naser: +https://docs.openstack.org/xena/ + + +10:31:35 am - Amy Marrich: +Ok we'll definitely need to edit a little, The neutron person's name is not Love + + +10:31:53 am - Kendall Nelson: +Lajos +Katona + + +10:41:02 am - Amy Marrich: +This transcript is so funny;) + + +10:41:50 am - Jay Bryant: +Oh man, how are you not just LOLing reading this? + + +10:42:38 am - Radosław Piliszek: +Let's do a transcript reactions session then :P + + +10:43:29 am - Amy Marrich: +Ok I've pinged in IRC and internally, no response yet + + +10:55:32 am - Amy Marrich: +Oh shoot forgot torecord! + + +10:55:53 am - Jay Bryant: +You're fired! ;-) + + +10:56:16 am - Kendall Nelson: +....if only we were on irc and all just typing... it would be recorded :P + + +10:56:22 am - Amy Marrich: +I do have the transcript and have been babysitting it. I totally forgot and no one reminded me so y'all are fired! + + +10:56:24 am - Radosław Piliszek: +if only indeed! + + +10:56:37 am - Jay Bryant: +*Sad trombone.wav* + + +10:59:40 am - Radosław Piliszek: +sorry, I have to leave + + +11:00:13 am - Ghanshyam Mann: +k, i will handle irc thing. thanks + + +11:02:03 am - Daniel Pawlik: +opensearch does not have such "product" like logstash ;/ +[a]oopsie :D \ No newline at end of file